Self-refuting statements are also called self-defeating statements.
They are statements that implicitly deny their own truthfulness. From
the logic side of things, it's a little like shooting oneself in the
foot. One of the most commonly used is variations of "There are
no absolutes"
- which is an absolute statement. It's easier to see when it's rephrased
"There are absolutely no absolutes" because it's clear
that it contradicts itself.
Another commonly used self-refuting statement used in relation to religions
is "Truth is relative." Again, it's an absolute statement
which in order to mean anything must be true. But if truth isn't absolute
the statement isn't true.
Self refuting statements don't need to be refuted, as such, since they
do that themselves. However, they should be pointed out. Here's a few
examples of how, using questions to hopefully help the person who made
the self refuting statement get thinking. Closely related to many of
these self-refuting statments is the Law
of non-contradiction, which basically says something cannot be both
true and false at the same time and in the same sense.
| Statement |
Response(s) |
Truth |
There is no absolute truth. |
- Is that absolutely true?
- Are you absolutely sure about that? |
"All people or groups that claim to
have absolute truth are liars" - paraphrase of Rob
Bell's teachings. |
Is that also an absolute truth, and therefore
a lie? |
| We can't know truth. |
- Is that true?
- Do you know that? |
| "No human being, Pope, housewife, scientist,
graduate or web-master can say beyond a doubt what is true without
assuming divine infallibility." - JH by email, defending Rob
Bell. |
- Is what you just said true?
- If that is true, are you assuming divine infallibility? |
| "The mind has no capacity to tell truth
from falsehood"
- David R Hawkins. |
- Did your mind have the capacity to tell that
that statement is true?
- Does my mind have the capacity to tell that that statement is true?
- How do you expect my mind to be able to determine the truthfulness
of this statement? |
Truth is relative.
(This is known as relativism.) |
Is that statement only relatively true? |
| "Science has absolutely proved that truth
is relative"
- paraphrase of DP by email. |
- Is that "truth" also relative?
- Is that absolutely true, or just relatively true? |
All truth depends on your perspective.
Truth is different for everyone. |
- Is that statement true?
- Does that truth depend on your perspective?
- Does that mean that statement could be true only for you?
- What if my truth is that truth is the same for everyone (as per
the Law
of non-contradiction)? |
"We must all find out our own truth" -
Nanda McLean in a letter to NZ Herald.
"You should try to discover your own truth" -
comment on NZ Herald web site. |
- Is that true for me or just for you?
- Are you telling me my truth instead of letting me find out my
own truth?
- What happens if I find out my truth contradicts your truth?
- It that your own truth or my own truth you're trying
to discover for me? |
"Emergent doesn't have a position on absolute truth,
or on anything for that matter." - Emergent Church leader
Tony Jones. |
- Is that absolutely true?
- Is that a position? |
Reality |
| We create our own reality. |
- Did I just create you saying that or did you?
- When you said that did we create the same reality at the same time? |
| "Reality is in your experience" -
SW by email. |
- Is that really true or did it just become
true when I experienced it?
- If I had never experienced you saying that would it never be
true?
- Did you exist before I experienced you saying that? |
| "... people[']s reality is whatever they
believe it to be"
- RW by email. |
- Is it just your belief that your reality is
whatever you believe it to be, or is that really the case?
- If my reality is, like yours, whatever I believe it to be, did
I just create your emails by believing I would receive them?
- Do you believe my reality changed when you believed you said that?
- If I believed I hadn't read your statment then would it not have
been real? |
Everything is an illusion.
Pain and suffering are just an illusion. |
- Is that statement true or just an illusion?
- If pain is an illusion tell me why it is that when I sit on a pin
and it punctures my skin, I dislike what I fancy I feel?
- Go jump in front of a speeding truck, then. [Perhaps not an acceptable
reply, but it does show the statement is not a livable one.] |
"All matter is an illusion" -
PJ by email.
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent
one" - Albert Einstein. |
- Who/what just said that?
- Did an illusion just make a real statement?
- Why do you persist in making illusory statements? |
We don't exist.
Matter doesn't exist. |
- If that's the case then what just said that?
- If matter doesn't matter you should try stepping in front of
a bus and see if the bus's matter matters. [Perhaps not an
acceptable reply, but it does show the statement is not a livable
one.] |
"Science now knows there is really
no matter as such"
- PJ by email.
"The universe isn't made of anything"
- QI producer John Lloyd on radio. |
- Who said that?
- What said that?
- Did an immaterial person just make a material statement?
- If you're immaterial does it matter what you espouse? |
Matter does exist, but nothing else does.
There is no supernatural. |
Does the immaterial meaning of that statement exist?
When did you gain the supernatural omniscience to know that? |
| "Nothing exists except matter" -
philosopher Mary Midgley. |
Does that statement have any meaning (ie, outside
of the matter it exists as)? |
| My viewpoint is solidly grounded in personal experience. |
How can subjective evidence provide a solid foundation? |
| "I've got my feet firmly planted on this
illusion" - Cindy Williams. |
How can [an] illusion provide a firm footing? |
| You can't trust your senses. |
Should I trust what my ears are hearing/eyes are reading when you
ask that? |
Religion |
All religions are true.
(This is known as pluralism.)
You can't claim your religion is the only true one. |
- Am I wrong if I disagree with that?
- Is my religion wrong if it disagrees with that?
- Is that a true religious statement itself?
- Are you claiming that religious statement is a true one? |
"All major religions come from God."
- Baha'i basic belief, from their web site. |
What if my major religion from God disagrees
with that? |
It is wrong to judge.
It's wrong to say others are wrong. |
- Then why are you judging?
- So what you just said is wrong?
- Are you wrong in saying that?
- Are you right to say others are wrong? |
"Judging anyone is a direct judgement
of the self." - "Rev" AH by email (spelling corrected). |
In making that judgement are you judging yourself? |
| "No one is wrong or broken" - NLP basic
tenet. |
- So if I say that's wrong I can't be wrong
in saying that?
- If someone disagrees with that are they wrong? |
| "Give up the interpretation that there’s
something wrong" - Landmark
Education teaching. |
- Is that interpretation right?
- Then how can it be wrong to think there's something wrong?
- Would that be an interpretation of something being wrong that you
haven't given up yet?
- Could you demonstrate for us how playing on the motorway isn't
wrong? |
We can't really know anything [about religion].
(This is known as "hard-boiled" agnosticism.) |
Do you know that? |
| "Nothing is known or can be known about the existence or nature of God" - PCa by email. (Apart from being self refuting, later in the same email he also showed himself wrong by logically demonstrating that God is not a God who must prove himself to people. Clearly he does know something about God.) |
How do you know nothing is known?
How do you know nothing can be known?
How can you know those things if nothing can be known? |
There is no God. |
- How do you happen to omnisciently know that? (Omniscience being
a characteristic of God and God alone.)
- Wouldn't you have to be God to know that? |
God doesn't take sides. |
Does God take that side? |
| We should tolerate all views/religions. |
- Why don't you tolerate my view/religion?
- So you tolerate all intolerant views as well? |
| You shouldn't try to impose your own religion views on other people. |
Why are you trying to impose your religious view on me? |
| "But please, do not impose your beliefs on others" - PCa by email. |
Aren't you trying to impose your beliefs on me there? |
Logic |
| "There are exceptions to every rule!" -
SS, Subud member, by email. |
- Is that a rule that's always right?
- Is that a rule that has an exception too?
- So what are the exceptions to that rule? |
| Reasoning is unreasonable. |
- What???
- That reasoning sounds unreasonable to me. |
"Reasoning confuses you" - Joyce
Meyer.
"The more you try to reason the more confused you'll get"
- Joyce Meyer. |
- Are you trying to confuse me by making nonsensical
statements?
- What's your reason for that?
- How much reasoning did you do to come up with that?
- Doesn't that mean that your statement is either confused or you
didn't think before speaking?
- You sound confused. What's the reason for you being confused?
- Speak for yourself! |
| All generalisations are false. |
Are you just generalising? |
"We never generalize!" -
LL by email. (This claim was in between claiming the ancient Egyptians levitated slabs by manipulating the molecules around them, and claiming "Only the truly disgusting would be insulted at being called disgusting.") |
Except for now? |
| I'm skeptical of everything. |
Including your own skepticism? |
| "I'm skeptical of anything I haven't
seen or held in my hands" - PC in private conversation. |
So you're skeptical you have a brain? |
| Doubt everything. |
Should I doubt that? |
| Everything we know is wrong. |
Is that right? |
| We can't make any decisions. |
- When/how did you decide that?
- When/how did you come to believe that? [A more subtle approach.] |
Language |
Language is meaningless.
|
- Is that sentence meaningless?
- Don't you have to use meaningful language to tell me that? |
| "Words have become meaningless in our
society" - Rodney Howard-Browne. |
- Did those words you just used mean something?
- Did you just make a meaningless statement? |
"Words aren't absolutes" - Rob
Bell.
"No word is objective" - John Shelby Spong. |
- Are those words absolute?
- Is the meaning of those words absolute?
- Did you mean anything absolute by that statement?
- Are those words objective?
- Is the meaning of those words objective?
- Did you mean anything objective by that statement? |
"You must come to a point where nothing
in your life has any meaning" - Landmark
Education teaching. |
- Did you intend that point to have any meaning?
- You mean what you just said is meaningless? |
"There is no inherent meaning in anything." - Landmark
Education teaching. |
- Did that have any inherent meaning?
- What do you really mean, then? |
"The meaning of life is meaningless" - Landmark
Education teaching. |
[... Long pause ... Tumbleweed blows across web
page ...]
Um... seriously, can't you do any better? |
That’s just your interpretation.
That's just your opinion.
That's just your view. |
And is that just your interpretation / opinion / view? |
| "All opinions are vanities" -
David R Hawkins. |
Was that opinion just a vanity? |
| I cannot speak a word in English. |
What language was that? |
Miscellaneous |
"Therefore, it is clear that there
cannot be a theory or a spiritual teaching in Subud" - Subud web
page.
"Subud is neither a teaching nor a religion, but an experience
awakened by the power of God leading to a spiritual reality free
from the influence of ... thinking" - Subud web
page. |
- Isn't that a spiritual teaching?
- Isn't that a teaching?
- Were you under the influence of thinking when you wrote that?
- Did you have to think to come up with that or to tell it to me? |
| "Math is a question of fact, and religion
is a question of faith" - BZ by email. |
Do you just believe that in faith or is it a
fact? |
"The objective certainty that people
crave doesn't exist outside of God." - JH by email,
defending Rob Bell. |
But since you're making that statement outside
of God, is what you just said objectively certain? |
